Fri Sep 25 22:40:42 1998


Hmmm.. some of the entry fields on the guestbook form seem to be malfunctioning. This is my email address, sans the weird extra stuff that was added above: elijahblue@hotmail.com

And here is the address of my home page: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/3435

Mon Sep 28 12:19:46 1998
Hugo
veldhuizen@publishnet.nl
I was just looking for a site, were I can have a intellectual discussion about politics, economics etc.
If someone can help me to live out my passions to discuss,
please sent me an E-mail.

Mon Sep 28 12:21:22 1998
Hugo
veldhuizen@publishnet.nl
I was just looking for a site, were I can have an intellectual discussion about politics, economics etc.
If someone can help me to live out my passions to discuss,
please sent me an E-mail.

Wed Sep 30 14:02:42 1998
halturen-bawadaak@altern.org
Subject: Inadaptation

In the article "The Outsiders", the author says:
>Some of those reading this paper may find the portrait painted here to be
>completely incredible. Their own experiences were nothing at all like those
>described, nor were those of most of their gifted friends. But the point of this
>article is not that there's some special hazard in having an exceptional IQ:
>There's not. The point is that the danger lies in having an exceptional IQ in an
>environment completely lacking in intellectual peers. It's the isolation that does
>the damage, not the IQ itself.

I do not know to which point I can be considered gifted or
worth to take your time, but my life until now (I am 16)
has been stirringly similar to what the article portraits.

I am not an extreme like the Sidis case. I could read
newspapers at age 3 and wrote short stories at age 5, but
the school system down here in Brazil wouldn't let me do
anything to stop the waste of time that school was until
high school. I have fallen in a sort of moderate negative
suggestibility of which sometimes i am conscious. There is
no creditable entity taking IQ tests or helping gifted
children in this place. There are not even high-iq societies,
no learned societies, not even a "densa". Nothing. I am
truly bored. I have no friends at all. Sometimes i feel
uncapable to have feelings.

That's it. I'm becoming obsessed with treating people as
if they were inferior. And I was very surprised by that article.

Fri Oct 9 8:18:43 1998
Chuck
Dimster
Sure you people are smart, but are you as smart as Geraldo Rivera?

Didn't think so.

Fri Oct 16 11:17:03 1998
Senator Mike Fair
fairmike@swbell.net
Sounds interesting.

Mon Dec 14 9:41:25 1998
Hallucination
I have an I.Q. of 175

Mon Dec 14 9:42:21 1998
Hatty_cobainy@hotmail.com
I have an I.Q. of 175

Tue Dec 22 15:58:40 1998
no2l8@usa.net
finaly, the damn thing is working (again)! problems r still there, work them out...

Thu Jan 7 16:58:40 1999
john
no2l8@usa.net
this site is clearely one of the best on the net but i got to ask te designers: is there some script or whtever that makes my browser to go crazy almost every time i visit?
gee the bomb just went off in my neighborhood! and another one! i got t see what it is! and you see what bombs my IE.
maybe little billy=the devil does.

Sat Jan 9 13:02:01 1999
Chuck
cbrain@hotmail.com
Well, I doubt anyone will respond (judging from the lack of guestbook entries) but here it goes anyway. Anyone know of a group/site for top two percentile teens? Just a site with some interesting subjects etc? My bookmarks have become rather boring.

Fri Jan 15 5:25:53 1999
Iain Carlin
mountain

Sun Jan 31 13:16:41 1999
Cesar Saccone
Sacseg@arnet.com.ar
I like pizza. Hot.
I like Coca Cola. Cold
Guess how i like girls.

Sun Jan 31 13:19:23 1999
Cesar Saccone
Sacseg@arnet.com.ar
All the people who leaves messages are the ones that didn´t pass the test. They are stupid persons who wants to sound smart.

I`m one of them

Sun Jan 31 23:57:02 1999
scott young
fermata2b2c2@hotmail.com
i'm 16yrs old, ADD,and quite bright. yet prefer complex
visual analysis to other relations of mathematics.are there any
techniques strengthening the areas of number theory yet without
the monotonous string of numbers and simple generalizations?
p.s. {i hate the french language) if it wasn't for socities
like this, no one (one word) would understand the inane
comments i set forth. adieu. please e-mail your replies
the lines are currently open. qod erat demonstrandum.

Tue Feb 2 9:40:44 1999
Jalon R. Leach
jrleach@sheltonbbs.com
My first visit to the web site - it really looks good.
You might try cleaning out some of the out of date entries.

Tue Feb 16 13:56:59 1999
wntrmute@iglou.com
How isolated can a person can feel, if surrounded by
people who wish to be friends?

Even though I am in a city of more than a million,
only 17% of the population have ever attended college.
I meet illiterate people who make more money than I do
working as a college department head.
Having an extraordinary IQ (over 175)is a curse.
Not worth it. Local doctors have told me that although
I am a highly intelligent person, I am disconnected and
should probably be taking strong (and expensive) anti-
psychotic drugs. I am not disconnected, but I am crushingly
bored and very much alone.
Those of you who criticize and show jealousy toward this
fine organization might not know the burden that comes
to people of intelligence, and how predictable life can
become when there is little inellectual stimulation.

I offer fondest blessings to the members of the
Prometheus Society and hope that they can continue to
offer a sense of belonging to those of us who have had
to walk down this road alone.

Thanks,
RyaN

-Please respond through e-mail

Fri Feb 19 7:33:12 1999

Fri Feb 19 18:14:10 1999
Ramon
rmm@unicall.be

Hello RyaN:

Why should anyone respond by email ? You WANTED high visibility, et voila.
You are boring and I mean *really* boring. Noone with some experience and a working brain, even one borrowed from a dog, would believe your whimmering story. POOR YOU !

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Let's once and forever stop that boring plot of the poor super-intelligent whose somehow mutated mega-brain turns brilliance into psychopathy. Any and every "un-normal" person will have to suffer somewhat, maybe the John Normals way to react on something that is out of his experience range. Maybe jealousy. Maybe something very ordinary and simple like humans beeing comfort oriented; We all know that story: Son of very rich family not needing to work, to fight, to run. Now: Who has the personality to give away all the money to live a normal life with its challenges ?

Stop the bullshit and the crying. Everyone has its set of strengths and weaknesses (not meaning that in the end we all end up in something like a neutral '0') and everyone has to go for his raison d'etre (whatever that might be for any given person).

Of course, a very intelligent person will have interests that are hardly matched by the average neighbour. But then, every neighbour might have *something* that *is* worth looking at or giving fun, unless the *only* factor you look at is intelligence. (I'm waiting for an idiot complaining that nobody is willing to talk Sumerian with him ...)

All this looks pretty childish to me. "It's not my fault. It's only because 'they' didn't ... (e.g. give me a chance)". Yes, being rich or highly intelligent or outstandingly beautiful will make many (maybe most) people jealous or angry or whatsoever. So what ?
I've seen quite some HIQ guys who quite simply used this as an apology. Just for the fun of it: Suppose, there is a very stupid guy (IQ 76) and so, of course, most people don't want to play, talk or whatever with him. Would you accept if that guy ran around saying that he never got a fair chance and so he had to turn psycho ?

And while I'm at cleaning up:

No, HIQ's *do_not_have_to_do_something_special_for_mankind*
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(How about very beautiful people having to produce better or more beautiful babies ? Remember Adolf Hitler ?)

HIQ's have to do exactly the same in live as everyone else: They have to do whatever they think they have to do. It's their life. And from what I've seen and heard so far, many of them are not too happy about it.

While I can tolerate boring stories from HIQ's explaining why they had to fail in life, I really hate to see those excessively dumb and often really vulgar standard insults:

"Wow, your site is soooo great" Fact is: This site is hard to read and has a rather pervert design.

"I hate elite" Why ? Just because you are not allowed to be part of it ? Go and kill Elephants: You'll never be as big as they are !

"The world is boring me. Noone is interested in Tokamak Beta stellarators and in early celtic language evolution"
How about suicide ? Would that make you feel better ? No ? Well, how about stopping to show off (Yes Sir, that's exactly what it's all about and you know that, right ?) and to start to somehow cope with the *existing* world ?

How about creating a club for men with an extremely long penis ? Wouldn't that be funny ? I see you smiling, but I'm pretty sure that they would have roughly the same site and the same comments. ("The length is not important.", "Mine is 0,3 inch too short; can I anyway join ?", "Oh yes, I can understand you so well. I was also left by many women. They were afraid of me !")

Ramon. Feel free to respond private, public or not at all.

P.S.: Not meaning to provoke you harshly, but I somehow feel that really intelligent persons wouldn't think that there might be a number that could reasonably represent the intellectual capability of a human brain.

Mon Feb 22 15:56:34 1999
Jaq Daly
upstairs1@earthlink.net
Wow- so much that I feel emotionally has been put in writing. Sometimes I think I'm adrift with no other s in the world.I'm a "lapses"Mensa member. I have a lot of issues around being intelligent. I might qualify for this group- maybe I'll see one day, but I celebrate those of you who have found a space that you're comfortable with in this world, and hope one day to do the same. It can be so frustrating. I read in one person's statement the difficulty around "focus" (a vile word to me at the present time, anyway) I prefer to think that I havn't found my singular "genius" quality yet. I probably won't either!
It was very nice to read the comments- thanks for the opportunity- Jaq

Wed Feb 24 1:32:26 1999
Peter Bracic
peter.bracic@shaw.wave.ca
Greetings all. I would graciously delight in applying some comments of my own to this mountain of intellect. Upon deciphering some of the comments listed above, I couldn't help but to see the mentioning of all the depression and grief that comes along with monumental proportions of mental capability. I do not have ALL the answers I would like pertaining to how upbringing and self-suppresson of genius can affect one's "measured IQ", however I do feel I have singlehandedly unraveled the basics, (and i stress BASICS), in what l believe are results of various paths taken on the road of life. I am 21 years old and cannot for one moment retrieve my relaxed brain from the realm of beyond. I constantly (and most of the time helplessly) fall into states of deep thought, and, needless to say, I get detatched from reality. This has always been a real bummer for me, since many times I get this uncontrollable urge to enter and toy with oblivion and make sense of the completely insane and apparently impossible (most of the time in class or when I'm being told something "important"). As a child, I never lived in one place for longer than one or two years at a time, and with this came the curse of making and breaking of friendships at the drop of a hat. As a result of this, I have been pushed into the realm of loneliness and indifference toward others, and I do not seem to care about much at all for as long as I can remember (since I was 6 or 7). My mother told me I used to ingest innumerable amounts of books without end as a child, but I do not have even the slightest passion for them since about ten or twelve years ago (just after I lost all motivation ). My parents have mentioned to me a few times in the past five years that they had considered putting me in a school for gifted children, but my father was grossly disgusted with the idea, believeing that I would become a tremendously unsociable outcast. He valued social acceptance above mental pampering. For this I do thank him, and I would likely do the same for my future child, but seeing as how I am such a tremendous social outcast anyway, it really did nothing for me except suppress (possibly forever) the fire that burned within me. I have taken a few online IQ tests recently to see if I still have some abnormal intelligence lurking, and although I got a 165 on the "European IQ Test", it seems too easy a test, and I would like to know if this test can be relied upon for an accurate measurment. On other tests, I do not usually score above around 150, but I feel that this is GREATLY due to the fact that I do not read, and so many of the questions on these tests ask the definition of "intelligent" words (anything that is memorized does not at all make you intelligent just because you have a good memory). Mathematical and visuo-spatial tests, I feel, are the only true measurement of the mind, as words' meanings are learned and simply memorized, as I just mentioned. This brings me to the main reason for my post; I feel that emotion has a lot to do with intelligence. I have a profound sensitivity toward others and will try to avoid (in their mind) subtly insulting or greatly harming them emotionally. When I mention a certain course of action or a most likely outcome for any old thing, the "real smart" friends of mine will immediately discard it as a possibily and go about their ways of reaching a solution. (What they don't know is that I used emotional "feel" as a primary means to a solution). The next time I see them, when they tell me what happened, I am inclined to say "I told you so", but I don't, and then they tell me something like "Oh yeah that thing you said was right but the circumstances were wierd and it might not have occured exactly that way", but I know that this was the only and proper way to do it, regardless of circumstance. What I am trying to say is, by keeping your emotional equilibrium there is less chance of being sidetracked with needless arguments and such occurences. Also, on a different note, the dawning of a new idea in the field of, let's say, physics, will not be considered too great a discovery to the scientist, but will be regarded an infinitely phenomenal breakthrough by all others. This scientist only kept his mental equilibrium and didn't get too carried away with disorderly brainstorming. Instead, this person let the emotion flow and came upon a simple, logical finding which felt right. (Since high-end intelligence is usually associated with actually LESS brain activity than the normal person to arrive at a conclusion for a problem [fewer pathways are used more efficiently in the brain], it seems to me that emotional acknowledegment played a vital role in bypassing the whole "second thought" process and delivering a concise, yet correct, answer). Sorry to drag on like this, but I haven't even scraped the surface yet, and delving deep while not even trying is the secret meaning of life, right? I am disgusted with the way society (namely other students in the same grade as you) mercilessly molds the young, capable and eager mind into a pile of garbage, erecting barriers where there were none to start with. For example, if a class two years ahead of yours just finished a math exam and students begin spreading tales of difficulty and unfairness pertainig to the exam, they unknowingly build unneeded barriers in the minds of the able. Even though you may be brilliant, you begin to feel that the road ahead of you is going to get rough, and you begin straining your brain unnecessarily and brain tissue that SHOULD remain dormant (used with emotional side of intelligence) gets stimulated, then dragged into the realm of conscious intelligence. Once this occurs, the chunk of emotional intelligence, which once separated the greatly intelligent from the profoundly intelligent, gets removed, and a step down has been taken instead of remaining at equilibrium. ***That's the thing people don't understand***, is that there is no increase in intelligence, there is only making FULL USE of what is already there, letting it all out, and not pushing so hard you lose ease of flow. For example, if an engineering degree is an aspiration, it is NOT a mountain to be climbed, it is merely a simple lake to glide across effortlessly (the boat being the schooling, and mental equilibrium being maintained throughout the process). You can of course "build your own speed boat", but this will not be accepted by society as a viable means of achieving your goals. The preset means of achieving them are meant to be followed closely, and this I feel is sadly the most limiting thing in the world, quite the opposite in the eyes of the establishment, who believe this is the most fulfilling and mind-expanding experience in the world. Effortlessness is the REAL way, not cramming whordes of crap into your mind and remembering it all in short bursts. Curriculum must be changed so that people learn to "feel" their way through things with that emotional "push" from the back of the mind rather than processing the same crap 50 times to see if the outcome will be the same every time. Ronald Heoflin and others who have set up high-IQ societies are on the right track to allowing intelligent people true freedom, but these ideals must be implemented elsewhere, especially in the school system if true freedom is to be arrived at. That pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell (the real in-depth stuff of course stretches into oblivion). If I may, I would like to ask wether or not drugs have any real permanent effects on the highly intelligent. I have had the misfortune of trying a sugar cube of LSD the first and only time I tried acid six years ago. I am greatly changed, and my theory of "emotional intelligence being lost and transformed into concious intelligence" seems to fit perfectly with my change in mental functions. I also smoke weed profusely, and I wonder if the drug keeps me at its own equilibrium, holding me back from my natural mental euilibrium. All this thought of emotional intelligence really makes me wonder...could it be the distinguishing factor between highly and profoundly intelligent people? I don't know, but the clairvuoiance (my guess on how that's spelled) I possess seems minute in contrast with what I had as a child. Is this only the ascention into adulthood or has my dabbling in drugs had an effect on me for the worse? If anyone's wondering, I just barely scraped through high school (50% overall average, due, of course, to regular weed smoking, skipping classes, and just plain disredard for authority and establishment as a whole), because my emotional intelligence and "breezing facility" was too important to me, and I would rather daydream than listen to the crap teachers had to say. Basic arithmetic, in my opinion, is all that is needed for a true genius to be on the way to fulfillment, for with only this tool all other forms of math seem to hamper the individual with true clarity of vision. Back to the talk of Universities and such. The term "facility" is used to describe a campus building or library, and the literal translation (my guess anyway) is to facilitate (make easier) the road to knowledge. Sadly, with such a straight-lined approach to the same goal expected from each student, true individuality and superiority is limited to test scores and GPA's, resulting in a sad waste of effort trying to beat out the other guy instead of truly opening up and absorbing the underlying meaning of everything you are trying to make sense of. I have only one friend with whom I can discuss truly deep thoughts, and he agrees with me on the fact that if one did want to, for example, truly understand gravity, then a book or a course is not the preferred means of achieving this. Unraveling the mystery by yourself puts you in a whole new realm of thought, and when the goal is untimately reached, you are in a class of your own, far above the others that have merely read it in a book, yet the basic idea is still learned by both parties; however, the one who found everything out by himself has a clearer understanding of the same concept. I can carry on FOREVER, but I must be going now, as I have an Microsoft Certified Sysyems Engineer course to attend with which I intend to finally support myself in the real world. (It is sad that even in a computer geek class, the number of TRULY intelligent people is ABSOLUTELY no different than the average amount found in the general population). I shall, naturally, return and discuss more on the topic of intellect and what it really is to be intelligent. Lastly, I would like to mention that in my opinion IQ scores can be as useless as grades in school, and should not in the least be used as final judgement on someone's mental ability. Clear "vision" (emotional intelligence) and effortless judgement (more efficient use of fewer pathways in the brain) are the real description of intelligence, and further research should be done on the subject. Good day ( or good night) to all. I look forward to our next meeting. Sincerely, Peter ***PS Does the European IQ Test qualify for admission into the society? Just wondering...***