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Prometheus
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Archive 6
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Guestbook
Archive 6: May 4, 1999 - May 26, 1999
Tue May 4 18:25:52 1999
Ramon
rmm@unicall.be
Hi there,
dear Mike,
I might have something that could help you (it worked for me and, once grasped,
I actually had some fun).
I think it's a matter of perspective. Usually we would assume that school is something
like a job, that is, our main occupation and - more important, something that
really counts. Such, we give quite some power to those teachers because if we
miss their funny tests we have to bear the consequences. Usually, there are two
typical reactions:
Either I "break" and give in and cope more or less or I rebel, that is, I don't
give a s.... Either way I would be punished.
So, why not smile ? I mean, if I have a very high IQ, then I should - ignore the
psychological issues for a moment - very easily be able to deliver the mere level
requested, right ? After all, that's what we complain about; schools being made
for the average.
Our problem never was that we couldn't cope with what they demanded. Our problem
was that they didn't demand (and OFFER) enough. So we went beserk ...
How about the following approach :
I want to learn so many things and I want to understand them down to their very
structure. Sure enough, what the teacher demands is hardly a ridiculous subset
of what I want to learn. But then, the reasonable compromise is obvious: Why not
live peacefully by allowing the teacher/the school system to set some part of
my agenda ?
To get real fun, I personally went to the university library and digged deeper
(lots deeper :-) So, rather than refusing the teachers agenda, I would see it
as a proposition; something like I'm damn interested in everything and hardly
know to choose. So, why not looking into cytology if this is what he has on his
menu ...
If you want to give some of the confusion / pain back:
- If a test offers options (theme A or B) choose both !
- Discuss marks in "soft" classes (English, Literature)
- Proove that their question is not precise, stupid, ignorant.
- Worst (to them) : Give them more of an answer than they can digest ! Or more
complex, or ... :-)
- Start a religious war ! (e.g. CS: The term "Object Pascal" is ridiculous in
itself.)
Whatsoever: Do not forget that having fun is an essential part of the learning
process !
And: They are just not smart enough to terrorize you.
Fri May 7 14:42:01 1999
Dave
unanglo@yahoo.fr
Hi there, this is sort of a compilation of comments I made to two or three different
people who signed the guestbook. The specific entries don't really matter but
I founf myself tending to reply to the people who seem to exude feelings ranging
from intimidation to frustration to suspicion to misunderstanding to disdain for
the fact that there is a society for highly intelligent people. I'm not sure if
their root issue is with the society or with the fact that such people exist;
this is one of the things I sort of explore in my comments. I myself am a Prometheus-"qualifying"
genius, if you will, who has never yet made any effort to join one of these organizations,
and I can understand both sides I think. I hope my comments cause people to think
about their opinions. I'm not necessarily saying those opinions, whatever they
are, are right or wrong -- I'm merely pointing out that examining your own positions
is healthy and thought is good and well I hope this causes future readers to think.
Ciao.
-----
I have to tell you that was a very interesting comment of yours that I've just
read here in this Prometheus guestbook.
If it makes you feel any better, I am a Prometheus-"qualifying" genius who has
never sought to join one of these organizations... although that doesn't mean
I never will. The main reason I never did is that I never really saw the need
(although throughout my childhood I was never told by my parents the extent of
my genius... I sensed that I was well above average, but I only found out my IQ
was 160+ when I snuck into their file cabinet and read the fascinating report
the psychologist wrote on me when I was tested at age 5).
However the other reason I never sought to join them is that I was suspicious
that they were largely self-serving egofests (though that wasn't entirely fair,
since I never bothered to investigate). The only thing I hate more than arrogant
people are people who are arrogant about their intelligence, it makes me queasy.
Moreover, arrogance is a poison for the mind -- "the all-naural opiate!!" as Al
Pacino mockingly pointed out with fiendish zeal in "The Devil's Advocate" (I loved
that crazy movie). Anyway, arrogance is a drug which clouds judgment and so, pardoxically,
renders the arrogant intelligent person less wise and capable and thoughtful than
a moderately less intelligent person who is thinking clearly. I'm not just talking
out of my ass, if you'll aprdon my French -- you might not see how arrogance will
do this every time off the top of your head, but I have seen it happen many, many
times to otherwise intelligent people. Look at the Titanic, look at Clinton (extremely
bright + breathtakingly arrogant = absurdly frivolous = impeachment, adn I'm not
just talking about Monica but his ridiculous August 17 speech, in which he was
teetering right on the edge and was so self-absorbed that he actually thought
this was a case of the nation being too voyeuristic and told us all to go mind
our own business. Excuse me, liar, but if We, the People, suspect our president
has violated his sworn oath, no matter what the topic, and brazenly lied right
to our faces, minding our own business is exactly what we're doing. Sheesh, to
think I voted for that arrogant SOB -- twice!)
Anyway, I've seen a lot of lesser-profiel examples of someone ensnaring him- or
herself in a trap because of varying levels of intoxicating pigheaded arrogance,
and I can safely say that regardless of (or especially in the case of) intelligence,
it's a no-no. I have a gift of perception and I can read people and also in many
cases break down their logic well. I got a 99th-percentile score on the LSAT (American
test most directly correlated with intelligence; my score qualifies me for automatic
admission to Mensa. It's a test which involves finding subtle flaws in others'
reasoning and I earned a perfect score on one of those sections). Normally I hate
telling people these facts, first and foremost because it doesn't matter but also
precisely because I'm afraid they may think I'm arrogant. I'm telling you now
(since I'm writing quasi-anonymously) to tell you that I'm an extremely intelligent
person who does not have a shred of arrogance about it, and who has seen other
very, very bright people in all wlaks of life do some tremendously stupid things,
because they are not thinking straight, because, goes the great irony, they were
so high on themselves and feeling so invincible because they knew how intelligne
they were.
It's never worthwhile to get a big swelly head and become an arrogant fool, but
intelligence in particular, real or deluded, is absolutely nothing to be arrogant
about. It's a gift to be grateful for -- and anyway, I didn't have all that much
say in the decision, did I?
Although my memory of that particular moment is a bit foggy, I assure you that
things were sort of out of my hands when the particular sperm that just happened
to be carrying genius-spawning DNA in its little warhead happened to be the first
to breach the membrane of my similarly ingenious ovum. There may or may not be
some divine intervention involved in conception and in the dispensation of gifts
-- but in essence it's a lottery. Even if you believe God smiled on you and gave
you a gift because He expected you to do something with it (as I do), then it's
still a lottery in the sense of who he chose. Why you over the next person? Well...
why not? "The Lord works in mysterious ways."
Anyway, I want to veer back out of that tangent, I didn't mean to get all theological
on you, there may be many people of any number of faiths reading (including no
faith) and I want to stay on topic. What I wanted to say that I hope makes you
feel better is that there are plenty of people out there who understand what you
mean, the people who criticize organizations such as Prometheus for being elitist
-- but you must recognize at the same time that there is truth and fallacy mixed
together in that blanket judgment.
You must also recognize, that the subset of people who are of Mensa- or Prometheus-caliber
intelligence, and the people who actually eblong to those organizations, are not
one and the same. If you drew one of those Venn diagrams, the latter would be
an itty-bitty vacuole in the vast cytoplasm of the former. (It's jsut coincidence
that I keep citing cellular biology, by the way; I got an A in it, but I was actually
an economics major and today I'm an entrepreneur and web developer. Go figure
-- one of the typical hallmarks of extreme intelligence is that you tend to excel
in a broad cross-section of fields, whereas normal people are typically strong
in some area, realtively weak in another).
Anyway, I'm here in Prometheus because I was piqued to hit the Mensa site recently
and since then I've been exploring... Mensa says it's for the top 2% intelligent
of the world pop., and claims that it's worldwide membership is about 106,000.
Well... I ralized as I was walking home yesterday, that's an infinitesimal fraction
of the top 2%, which in a population of 5 billion would be 100 million, or the
entire populations of France and the UK combined. That's about 1000x the actual
Mensa membership, which means that for every "Mensan" there are about 999 non-member
Mensans.
With that math on the ground, you can take solace that not only are these organizations
not necessarily representative of "the best and brightest" of whom you speak,
but there is something of a confounding factor in the sense that the people in
the organization, may tend to be the ones who are closer to the stereotype you
portray. And it is a stereotype -- I don't agree completely with what you say,
and I don't necessarily know if Prometheus is as bad in that way as some seem
to perceive. Being a genius I understand why these organizations come into being;
there may be some arrogance of some individual members, but that's personality,
they'd be arrogant in or out. The organization itself is to bring like-minded
people together, because honestly as a genius it's hard sometimes when no one
else quite udnerstands you or can see things the way you do....
I wouldn't necessarily go so far either to suggest that such people are obligated
to give their gift to others and that they are automatically selfish if they don't
do it on Mother Theresa Mahatma Gandhi level. I don't feel that I am obligated
to go doling out the benefits of my wisdom to the world any more than Michael
Jordan feels that he is obligated to keep playing basketball for all his fans,
just because he is the best and they love to watch him, if it's not something
he wants to do. He can do what makes him happy, I can do what makes me happy....
This is my point. The first benefactor and manager of such a gift is "and of right
ought to be" the person who was lucky enough to receive it. My gift is foremost
for myself, just as, for example, your body as a woman is foremost for you. You
are not doing anything wrong if you rebuff my advances (politely) in a bar for
not wishing to share the "genius" of your beautiful body with me; and I am allowed
to keep the goods to myself as well when I so choose. This does not necessarily
make me selfish -- I am a very unselfish person. (Too unselfish, in fact, as the
record will reflect....)
However, although I don't agree with the extent to which you seem to stake it,
I do personally feel, as I'm sure many geniuses do, that I owe something back
to God in a sense, for giving me the gift I have, and I do intend to help others
with it. You'll see what I mean eventually, I already have plans for several things
that will make me marginally (and reluctantly) famous. The thing that will be
the most visible is the movie and novel I plan to make about my childhood and
college, but the most important thing I will do in my life I now realize, assuming
I live long enough to do it all, will be a special series of children's books
using my gift of insight to help kids to understand things about life as they
develop.
I will have a foundation that will take donations to give the books for free to
disadvantaged children who need it most (ie who don't have good role models around),
and much of this will be subsidized by the books which are purchased (I will put
on it that say 10% of the price of the book helps to bring books to poor and disadvantaged
children). Trying to become an entrepreneur and being in a very difficult financial
position in the last few years, I have also recently decided to start a foundation
which will basically give grants to geniuses with an approved business plan, social
program, etc. -- to help these people help the world, if you will.
I hope this makes you feel a little better given what some of you wrote. Thanks
for your insightful and thoughtful comments, even if I cannot entirely agree with
them personalyl or if they are not in fact correct. The free exchange of ideas
is the essence of humanity and the engine of progress. Only by opening our minds
to the positions, ideas and opinions of others, who have views that we may not
share or may not have thought of, can we be spurned to think more deeply about
it. Exposure to other ideas helps us enhance, analyze and hoepfully even replace
our own when replacement is warranted -- and every time someone has the courage
and wisdom to question him- or herself, the world becomes a slightly better place.
Dave
PS I think Rebecca was right about the high school dropout, and in fact I am sure
that several heroes who have in essence have saved the world already have been
dropouts. I don't know for sure but I don't think Abraham Lincoln for example
even made it to high school.
Were it not for his stewardship through the Civil War, Emancipation and Reconstruction,
the United States almost certainly would have fallen it apart at the seams, would
not be anywhere near the power it was by World War II -- which means Hitler would
not have been defeated.... brrrr! There's a domino effect to heroism, you see....
Fri May 7 15:18:37 1999
PS from Dave
unanglo@yahoo.fr
On rereading what I wrote, I saw that I had plenty o' typos and occasional flagrant
grammatical errors, as I often do when I am typing fast and thinking and my mind
starts wobbling and streaming out material in all directions like a spinning-top
supernova. Webmaster: pls keep the typos.
You non-geniuses you -- did you feel inside some small sense of relief when you
saw the genius make such a basic spelling mistake or put the word "it" in a nonsensical
place in the sentence? Good. It jsut goes to show genius is not synonymous with
perfection -- we're only human too. We may be smarter than the vast majority of
people, but that doesn't make us better than you in anyway.
To Prometheus-caliber geniuses: please don't ever get arrogant about your gift.
You do indeed have the gift of fire, but in human terms you are no better or worse
than the guy on the corner pumping gas. When you began to slip into arrogance
you contradict yourself because you blunt the power of the intellect you cherish.
Keep it sharp by using it to help yourself and to help other people, as much as
possible in a non-mailicious way toward anyone else.
To normal people: please don't feel intimidated or threatened by the fact that
there are geniuses walking the planet, which is the root unerlying emotion underpinning
the angry comments. That is the psychology behind those fascinating comments:
you feel, at bottom, afraid. Why are you lashing out at people on a website, who
haven't done anything to you, jsut because they happen to have high IQs? You perceive
an arrogance that isn't necessarily there, because you feel intimidated -- and
afraid it might mean there's something wrong with you, that someone else is a
genius, and you know that you're not. But that's your human self-esteem talking
-- that's not what it really means.
Their existence is not a threat to you, it doesn't mean that you, yourself, are
not smart and capable, just because there is someone out there who is definitely
smarter. Everyone likes to believe they are smart and that they know what they
are doing, and when they are forced to acknowledge by the concept of a genius
who is in the upper whatever percent of the population, it forces them to acknowledge
that maybe they aren't as smart as they think they are or wish they were -- but
this does not mean you don't know what you're doing. There are unfortunately plenty
of brilliant people who don't know what they're doing, either because they're
minds are polluted with arrogance (cf. Billy Clinton), or because they haven't
learned how to handle it and harness it and feel confused and don't really know
what to do with it (cf. Will Hunting) or both. Please recognize that genius is
not always a blessing, sometimes it can work against you, and it can also give
you problems and leave you quite lonely when you're growing up, and you're smarter
than everyone around you, and no one udnerstands you, and some people are perceived
by judgmental young kids as nerdy because they're so smart. It can be very awkward,
it's like being reallt tall too early. It can be uncomfortable to stand out like
that, and it can also be very lonely. It's not always a picnic, and in fact, in
my experience, seldom was.
These societies do not exist to be some sort of treehouse club hanging out a sign
reading, "No Dummies Allowed." It's for people of like mind to come together,
because it really kind of takes one to know one at that level. Normal people can
never fully understand a genius in some ways, because by definition a genius can
see things deeper, can perceive things more fully, can think with more agility
than many people can. Some people may indeed be arrogant in or out of any society,
and that is wrong, but the society itself exists merely to bring these people
together. It's like any other club or interest group on any other topic. It's
not meant as an elitist social club but as an objective acknowledgement of the
fact that, yes, we are geniuses of this caliber, let's talk about it what can
we do with it. And even if they're not discussing how to save the world at the
moment, that doesn't mean you should throw the selfishness flag. Maybe they just
want to come together to find friends who can understand them. If they decide
to break from debating pressing issues like toga-clad philosophers on the steps
of the Lyceum so they can go play poker, can you fault them for that? They are
people, just like you -- they can do whatever they want, so long as they are not
hurting anyone else.
Please don't feel intimidated by their existence or the societies, don't let it
make you question yourself. That's not the intention of the vast majority and
it's not the reality. There's no reason to feel threatened. Depsite disparities
in intelligence, we're all equal, we're all only human, and we all end up in the
same place. That's all.
Sat May 8 7:53:54 1999
Sat May 8 8:13:02 1999
Sat May 8 8:13:03 1999
Mon May 10 22:40:21 1999
JANET
LIVE2CH714@AOL.COM
HELLO WHEN I FOUND THIS WEB SIGHT I WAS EXCITED FINALLY TO TALK WITH OTHERS THAT
LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS NORMALLY OTHERS WOULD SAY" WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"
MY SCORES AREN`T OF YOUR HIGH CALLIBER I`M 32 AND MARRIED AND I LOVE CHOCOLATE,
READING ABOUT THINGS OUT OF THE ORDINARY. SUCH THINGS LIKE ELECTRIC MAGNETIC FIELDS,
TIME AND SPACE, INVISIBILITY, AND EXOTIC ANIMALS. AND THE LISTS GOES ON. WHEN
I BRING UP TOPICS LIKE THESE PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT ME FUNNY. DO YOU GET THE SAME
REACTIONS? I HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON. JANET MARRIED 11YRS.
Wed May 12 5:34:23 1999
Jim Dorval
jdorval@rational.com
Hello. As many of the members here already know. The world
is not a perfect place. I had some difficulty dealing with
the educational system in my more formative years. I found
people who helped me use my gifts to keep myself challenged
and learn at all levels. Reading the following helped me deal
with the normal frustrations of every day life.
Remember, if your here, then you are probably intelligent
enough to know how to deal with difficult situations.
Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what
peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without
surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your
truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the
dull and ignorant; they too have their story. «»
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the
spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for
always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy
your achievements as well as your plans. «»
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real
possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise
caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of
trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue their is;
many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life
is full of heroism. «»
Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be
cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and
disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. «»
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering
the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield
you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with
imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. «»
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and
the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not
it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as
it should. «»
Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him
to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the
noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. «»
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still
a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. «»
(anonymous)
Mon May 17 17:22:44 1999
bette
beti14739
thank you for being there. am new to this. peace and greetings from Friendship.
Mon May 17 17:23:28 1999
bette
beti14739@yahoo.com
thank you for being there. am new to this. peace and greetings from Friendship.
Fri May 21 22:33:53 1999
Harry Blazer
blazidt@home.com
Where can I peruse the Mega27 test?
Sun May 23 9:00:50 1999
Luis
Queridos conternautas, espero que alguno de vosotros sepa español, con ese pedazo
de IQ que teneis, a mi todo esto me parece muy bien, pero no os parece que os
empeñais en mediros con los demás, no será que vuestras vidas son aburridas y
necesitais minimizar de alguna forma el vacio que deja tanta inteligencia en vuestro
cerebro, bueno, tened en cuenta que la vida es tan complicada que merece la pena
vivirla simple-mente.
Un saludo a todos.
Netcafé-Madrid-Spain-Europe
Sun May 23 13:56:28 1999
Chris Thomas
swimsmurf1@aol.com
This is a great site for a great intellectual association, the only addition is
that I wouldnt mind seeing what 1/30,000 of the population is so I know if I qualify
or not.
Thanks
Mon May 24 7:57:54 1999
Liva
liva.andersone@appollo.lv
It would be a wonderful world if people can communicate only using language.
Mon May 24 7:58:39 1999
Liva
liva.andersone@appollo.lv
It would be a wonderful world if people can communicate only using language.
Mon May 24 7:59:11 1999
Liva
It would be a wonderful world if people can communicate only using language.
Wed May 26 3:47:01 1999
Myles
f1ashy@hotmail.com
INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE
1. Give people more than they expect and do it cheerfully.
2. Memorise your favourite poem.
3. Don't believe all you hear, spend all you have, or sleep all you want.
4. When you say, "I love you", mean it.
5. When you say, "I'm sorry", look the person in the eye.
6. Be engaged at least six months before you get married.
7. Believe in love at first sight.
8. Never laugh at anyone's dreams.
9. Love deeply and passionately. You might get hurt but it's the only way to
live life completely.
10. In disagreements, fight fairly. No name calling.
11. Don't judge people by their relatives.
12. Talk slowly but think quickly.
13. When someone asks you a question you don't want to answer, smile and
ask, "Why do you want to know?"
14. Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk.
15. Call your mom.
16. Say "bless you" when you hear someone sneeze.
17. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
18. Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others;
Responsibility for all your actions.
19. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
20. When you realise you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct
it.
21. Smile when picking up the phone. The caller will hear it in your voice.
22. Marry a man/woman you love to talk to. As you get older, their
conversational skills will be as important as any other.
23. Spend some time alone.
24. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.
25. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
26. Read more books and watch less TV.
27. Live a good, honourable life. Then when you get older and think
back, you'll get to enjoy it a second time.
28. Trust in God but lock your car.
29. A loving atmosphere in your home is so important. Do all you can to
create a tranquil harmonious home.
30. In disagreements with loved ones, deal with the current situation.
Don't bring up the past.
31. Read between the lines.
32. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
33. Be gentle with the earth.
34. Pray. There's immeasurable power in it.
35. Never interrupt when you are being flattered.
36. Mind your own business.
37. Don't trust a man/woman who doesn't close his/her eyes when you kiss.
38. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.
39. If you make a lot of money, put it to use helping others while you are
living. That is wealth's greatest satisfaction.
40. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a stroke of luck.
41. Learn the rules then break some.
42. Remember that the best relationship is one where your love for each
other is greater than your need for each other.
43. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.
44. Remember that your character is your destiny.
45. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.
Every day is a challenge , that is what makes life so interesting
for me...
Regards to all Myles...
Wed May 26 9:52:24 1999
Why do people bother?
Wed May 26 21:28:39 1999
lucretius5978@yahoo.com
Hello everyone, I come here to tell about some of my
complaints about the public school system. First of
all, they hold back the students that are able to do
well in one specific field. They do not allow the
students to advance in areas in which they are skilled.
There is also insufficient teaching of logical reasoning.
Most students, as a result, lack good mathematical ability.
I have noticed that most of them hate doing logical proofs in
Geometry class even more than they do algebra. They want someone
to give them the answers. I feel that the society should start
some sort of project to improve the quality of education in all
of the countries in hich it is active. Since I am really only
familiar with American education, I cannot say where the other
systems need improving, but I can say that this one needs to
put much, much more emphasis on education in science and
mathematics. It should help students improve mostly in the
areas in which they show most skills, rather than holding them
back simply because they do not always show equally great skills
in all areas. By the way, I am glad that societies such as this
one exist.
Democritus of Abdera
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